The Vicki Kotris Podcast

Ep 63: Not Just Pretty: The Real Power of Creative Work with Jason Garrett

• Vicki Kotris

Share episode

🎨 What happens when creativity collides with purpose? In this episode, we sit down with Jason Garrett — the powerhouse designer behind projects for the Cleveland Cavaliers, the NBA’s Kareem Abdul-Jabbar trophy, and now the Marcus Graham Project — to talk about storytelling that actually moves people.

From his days as a photography major to mentoring the next wave of diverse creatives, Jason shares how he’s using his talents to uplift small and Black-owned businesses, spark civic engagement, and reshape culture through design. We dive into the magic of collaboration, how AI fits into the creative process, and why storytelling is your business’s superpower.

If you're a creator, entrepreneur, or just someone who knows your work has meaning, this episode will light a fire under you.🔥

Connect with Jason here: 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jayg713?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

Email: jason@marcusgrahamproject.org

Thank you again for tuning into another episode of the Vicki Kotris Podcast! I want to support you, cheer you on a HYPE you up!! If you're celebrating anything (and I mean ANYTHING), send me a DM and let me highlight you on a recent episode.

If you're looking for support in building a social media content strategy, I'm your girl! Send me an email to vkkotris@gmail.com and we can set up a FREE account audit.

Please subscribe and leave a review HERE:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-confetti-filled-life-podcast/id1391196589

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/00cehOlAGd5HbUpAZ4wuYY?si=4c7353dd4c1e4312

Today's episode is all about creativity with purpose, and I couldn't think of a better guest to dive into that topic than with Jason Garrett. Jason is a powerhouse graphic designer and creative director whose work blends culture, strategy, and storytelling in a way that actually moves people. He's worked with brands like the Cleveland Cavaliers and helped design the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar trophy for the NBA. What really sets Jason apart is how he uses his talent to elevate small and black owned businesses to drive civic engagement and mentor the next generation of creatives. Now working with the Marcus Graham Project, a nonprofit dedicated to building diversity and marketing and advertising, Jason is focused on creating for culture and helping others do the same. We first met during an accelerator program where we competed in a pitch competition. I really got to witness Jason's magic when he designed the logo and brand essence for a company that I co-founded and recently sold. And I am so excited for you to hear his insights on turning creativity into real impact. So let's get into it. Jason, how are you? What's up? What's up? I'm, I'm gonna use that. I'm gonna find a way to like pull that audio. Like use it for when I go up on stage or something that got me hyped. What's up? Well, you know, I can be rented out for other public speaking engagements just as your personal hype woman. Whenever you need me, say less, let's do. Awesome. So I know what's something that's really important for you is this idea of creating for culture. And I don't think that it's always that apparent to people of what that actually means and what that drives, what that can create. So I wanna know for you, like what does that mean specifically to you and how have you embodied that in some of the work that you've recently created? Yeah, I think, um, you know, culture is a word a lot of times in my opinion. I think people use the word culture, but they don't really. Oftentimes dissect what culture is and and how it's built and where it comes from. And so anytime I think about culture, I think about the food, the art, the language, the style of a certain place or a certain people. And I think I. When you go a step behind that, a lot of that is built by creatives. You know, a lot of that, you know, from a food standpoint, it is the chefs, it is the single mothers who are, are creating dishes in, in their kitchen. Uh, when you think about an art standpoint, you know, obviously you have creatives driving the force behind that. And so for me, when we talk about cre, creating the culture or. C um, creativity and culture. It really is a full immersion of like the decisions we make as designers, as artists, and how they impact and, and. Create the culture literally. Yeah, absolutely. And you've done so much of it in your career and I think it, it would be helpful to kind of talk a little bit about what got you from being a, what started off as kind of a photography major and graphic design to now being this creative director with the Marcus Graham project and doing some really. Interactive and experiential work. So, and that's so rooted in culture. So maybe talk a little bit about your background there of what took you down that path of starting just with photography or just with design and then opening up to this like greater, impactful movement. Yeah, I think a lot of times, you know, even from very, the very beginning, we like to put ourselves in boxes, right? We like to put labels on things. I went to school and studied this and now I professionally do this and my job is this. And I think, you know, I think about creativity a little bit different. Mm-hmm. Um, you mentioned that I did start kind of in the photography graphic design realm. Initially I studied classically at Kent State University. Shout out to Kent. Um, um, but. I think what I quickly realized was in order to truly kind of bring certain visions to life and really serve my clients and my community in the way that I saw it, I needed to have like this hybrid skillset. Um, and it, it really became kind of this, this utility knife of skills that really helped me really reimagine what creativity was in, in my toolbox. Mm-hmm. Um, and so it started as photography, right? I did a lot of like. Um, weddings actually. And, um, I, I was doing wedding photography and then like event portraits and stuff like that, and I, I got to this point where I was like, all right, you know, I'm, I'm not a master of anything, but I'm dangerous enough and just about anything that love it. I can create anything. Like, and I started to like not say no to really anything. So if someone brought something to me. And I thought that there was a creative way to solve it. I'm like, alright, cool. Well let's figure out how to do this or how to do that. And I think what ended up happening was I took what was supposed to be just a thing, just graphic design or just photography. And really, I. Um, started to look at ways that you could really build on those. Um, and so I did a lot of campaign development. I started working in the advertising industry, um, and then I started to understand like, you can really use this creative utility toolkit to really create solutions for small businesses, for nonprofits. And it, it created a, an opportunity for me to kind of really emerge as a different type of creator. Um. A lot of times we talk now about, again, a title a creative director. Right. But I think that even more than that, I like to call myself a creative solutionist, um, someone who can just solve problems, right? And I think that there's always a creative solution to answer or a solve to a business challenge, a, a community problem that, you know, I can see myself positioned in a way to do it with one of the many skills that I've acquired over the time. Totally. I, I, I connect with that so much because as I've gotten older, and I think this is what inspired me to start my first business, is that idea of kind of boxing yourself in, of only being one particular thing. And a lot of people do that and that's why they stay in cubicles for their entire lives and get one vacation and then retire and say, I want to do all these things. And there's simply not enough time, you know? Right. There's not enough time or energy. Left and, and it's all of these years of like unused creativity. So I, that's why I love creative so much because it's almost planning your flag in a way and saying like, I don't. Uh, like take away all of the labels. Take away what you are, what's on your resume, what's on your business card, what you got your degree in, and just what is something you can lean into and solve a problem with, or story tell with. And those are just, I think that that magic happens when you lean into that and you're okay with just kind of sucking for a little bit and then going from there. Yeah, I, I had, you know, the quote, like, a jack of all trades is a master of none. Yeah. So I heard someone say, or I end up looking it up and, and fact checking it. The, the entire tee of that phrase is, um, a jack of all trades is a master of none. And then it goes on to say, but often still better. Then, um, someone who focuses on one. You know what I mean? Yeah. It goes on to talk about, in that phrase, we only, we only have in community digested half of it, which is the negative connotation of like just being good enough or just being dangerous in the words of Baker Mayfield. Mm-hmm. Uh, just dangerous enough to, to something about it. Yeah. And for me, I oftentimes like. How, what can I touch? What can I figure out next and have just a little piece of understanding in before someone else that can expose my clients or my community to a, a way of thinking. Yeah. Um, makes them dangerous or makes them able to solve just a little piece of the solution. So that's how I think about it. Yeah, I totally agree. And you've talked a lot about the idea of using art and creativity as storytelling, and I know you do that a lot with Marcus Graham. So, um, I'm curious, what has been your most favorite project that you have been able to? Story tell and it doesn't like, it doesn't even have to be anything related to Marcus Graham, but just in your career, what was something that you were really excited to be able to convey that in a creative way and then talk about what you did? Yeah, I think storytelling is so vital, right? Like it, it is. The, the foundation of creativity in, in my opinion, um, you, you make people invested. You make people understand, you make people connected by telling stories. Um, and so storytelling has always been a, um, such an important part of how I approach creativity. Um, and if you think about it, like even from way back, like right, we had. Our first language languages were stories. They were pictures on the walls that told hieroglyphics, that told the stories and narratives of what was going on. And we look at like, you know, the Bibles we read and the ancient ways that we've learned about things. A lot of it is storytelling. And so the best creators and, and communicators of today do a great job of telling stories. Mm-hmm. Um, my favorite story today that I have told. Um, we use the big, uh, project, the Cream Abdul-Jabbar trophy you talked about in the opening. Yeah. I think that, you know, we use the moment to create really a art piece. I would say more so for context. We, we, uh, designed the Cream Abdul-Jabbar Social Justice Award, which is a trophy giving away to one NBA player who, um. Services comm his community and shows social action, um, through their work off the court. Um, and you know, the, when we got the project brief, the first thing you instantly thought was basketball, right? Because it's an NBA trophy. It's like, and, and a traditional trophy model. And we started to really just deep dive on like what does that mean, right? Like what is the challenge or charge to a personal athlete mean when they all of a sudden are doing something at the highest level that they always wanted to do, that they're passionate about, and now they have cash flow to help and support others and, and they can bring certain things to their community. And we came up with this thought about the freedom to dream. And the entire piece, while it is centered around basketball, it is centered around the idea of what a platform like being an NBA player can provide and how that that can be translated to others. And so we created the, uh, this idea of freedom to dream, which was, uh, Kareem Abdul Jabbar's hands, like holding this crystal basketball. And it was like a symbology moment of like the care that obviously is crystal, but the care you have to take with it. But also like the magic of the game, like the magic of what basketball has created for social justice champions that gives them the ability to, to hold on to this game. And, and the ball also had the, uh, the world, um, etched on top of it. And so it, it showed like the care it took, but also like how the game of basketball can affect the, the world. Wow. And to me, it was just a beautiful, like I said, art piece at this point. Um, and now it's a staple in the NBA trophy lineup, which is also cool. That is amazing. I mean, it, that will, that's your legacy right there, you know, it's, that's cool. Creating that representation of what it means. And I think it's so true. It's, it's like that deeper layer of what it. What the project is all about, because you could have created anything, you know, you could have just created like his face on a heart or something. Mm-hmm. And just called it the, the trophy or what, you know, whatever the, for like you that you were honoring. But instead there's like true intentionality that goes into it and what this means. And that is where the legacy part comes in. And that's where the creativity comes in too. Right? Because when you have that true intentionality, you know what decisions to make, like. You know how to choose the the medium. Like I said, we talked about gentleness and care and so that's why we went with Crystal instead of like all gold. It was like it create that intentionality helps you make creative decisions. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I wanna segue,'cause we're talking about Marcus Graham project diversity, your goal of empowering black and brown entrepreneurs and creatives. And I'm curious like what motivates you? For that to make sure that there's always opportunities for people and voices to be heard and different avenues of creativity to be explored. Like what speaks to you the most about that and how have you been involved in empowering others? I. Um, I mean, I, I think it's a twofold approach. I think one, like I always want to be what I was looking for at the time in the instance of it's hard to emerge as a creative or, or start it, start a small business or, or use what you have as your personal talents and, and put that forward in, in something that you can believe in. That's tough. Yeah. And so like. Setting this, not, not the standard, but something to look at or something to aspire to has always been important to me, but also creating the pathways for others to easily access that. You know, I think a lot of times that it's just so hard to to explore our passions and to be creative because I. Money's in the way or time or all these things. So I always wanted to try and, um, break down as many of those barriers as I could. And so that's why mentorship and exposure is so important to me. Um, but on the second hand of that question, I think that like diversity. Its true, meaning is a big driver of why I think it's important. Um, I've always seen that the best ideas come when you have a, a wealth of talent and thought in the room, um, and not just your own. And I think that when we, I. Get past all the barriers that are obvious, and we really think about diversity of, of thought, diversity, of perspective, diversity, of, of effort and skill sets. That's when the true magic happens. I remember earlier in my career, I worked on so many projects just by myself. I'm cranking it away. Um, and it wasn't that I really saw the magic in the work and, and, and my ideas get bigger and better until I started collaborating with other, other creatives and bringing other people in. Um, and I think that it is that diversity of thought that really makes, I. Something beautiful and something, a story that everyone can understand and everyone can see themselves represented and engaged in. And that's what makes true, powerful creative work and creative solutions is when you have that, that true, uh, diverse range of, of all of that, not just what you think by yourself. Yeah, I, I, I buy into that wholeheartedly. And I think when we first started our business, that was the same thi same kind of approach that we took. And again, you know, like leaning into the creativity side is knowing that there are people who are doing so many cool things in this world that compliment what you are doing that give you mm-hmm different perspective, challenge you to think differently, which was something kind of new. And my experience is a little different'cause I came from a corporate world where I felt. Not challenged. I felt like everyone was robotic in the way of thinking, and it's just like, this is the way it's always been done. But when you are open to that kind of, I guess, vulnerability, really, you know, if you're doing projects by yourself for so long and then you welcome in new ideas, new voices, there's a level that's like, oh shit, you know, I, I have to level up too. Or I'm not gonna get better, or I'm not gonna make this experience what it should be. And so we, I sought out the same, I was like, there's so many business owners and people with more knowledge than I have in the city. Why would I not collaborate with them? Or why would I not, you know, ask for an opinion? And it's, it's worked out so much and now I've just kind of built it into my psyche and just running a business is always seeking. Other people's advice or you know, just like ways to collaborate for sure. Was there one collaboration you did that inspired you the most? Or that was like, wow, this is awesome? I would say, um, it was actually a bad experience. Oh, talk about it. And so. You, you, you spoke about the Marcus Grand Project. I'll give like a a 32nd context about that. So the Marcus Grand Project is, uh, nonprofit organizations that helps underrepresented talent break into the industry of advertising, marketing, media, and sports. They have a couple different programs. They have a. A workshop that like exposes you to the business of sports and allows you to pitch ideas to a sports team. And then they have a bigger, uh, program that's a bootcamp. It's like 12 weeks. You get with the top 12 top people from across the country and it's like a real world situation. You live together, work together, form an advertising agency and pitch to like huge clients. So this is where my bad experience happens. Okay, so. I told you I'm in the midst of a lot of times like doing projects by myself or maybe one more person, um, kind of all in my own way, um, doing great work. No, it, it is good work. It, it earned me one of the spots on the 12 team, but it is a, a very like tunnel vision way of thinking about it, of understanding it. And so the bad experience happens when I start to collaborate with these other 12 folks who are. Geniuses, right? Geniuses in their space understand things better than just my little jack of all trades. I just know a little bit. They know all of it, right? They, they poured the 10,000 hours in, um, and it was like a, a, a high tension moment, right? Like there were, there were times where I was very, very strong. On how I felt about it, how I saw it, and I just didn't have the skin really to collaborate in that manner yet with, and I didn't understand the potential that was on, on, on the table because I was, I had a big ego, I guess you could say. Uh, and so. S the bad experience taught me something because what ended up happening was, uh, I got kicked off the project. Right. I, we had three projects that summer and this project was for a Revolt network, which is a, um, a media company. Okay. And I had kicked off the Revolt project and I had an attitude like for a couple days, and I ended up picking up another piece of work we were working on. And then I came back and checked on that group like three days later. Like positive that the, the castle had crumbled and Yep. They were nothing without me. And the work that they were producing was amazing and it, it still implemented my creativity, the things that I had done on the project, but I was the block in allowing that project to, to get to the level it got to and, and how we ended up presenting it. And it was my fault. And so like, being removed, being pulled out, like having to check my ego and, and realizing like how important collaboration and allowing people to do what they do well, um, yeah, can help you do what you do well. Uh, was really like a, a change of the guard for me. And ever since it is like I approach work so much differently. Like, it, it's all about like collaborating and creating space for people to, to do them and bring themselves to the project, not just collaborating because. I wanna say that I, I've got more teammates, but like true collaboration. Jason, I am so glad that you shared that because that is, the ego part is it's really tough. Yeah. It's really tough to have to own your idea and have, and as a creative person to finally get comfortable with sharing. The things that you wanna share and cre and having a voice and you're like, wait, I'm doing all these things. Like that's what people say is speak up, like, stand up for yourself and show the world what you got. And then you get into a situation you're like, that you're, you're like, I am, but it's not working and I'm the problem. So I think it takes such a big, that's such a awesome learning moment, but it's also takes such a big like. Just, I guess like weight off your shoulders to say, you know what? I realize that I'm not gonna be like the best and I have to just accept it and move on and see how this makes me better for the next time. Yeah, so much so, so much So, yeah, I think ego gets in the way for so many people, and obviously it's not, it's not a, it is not a great. Thing to have in a collaborative environment because you really close yourself off to to others because you're only looking through the way you see it. And for me, perspective is such, such a key ingredient in, in great work. And if you're only looking at one perspective, then you're only solving one half of the problem. You know what I mean? So you need these other perspectives and ideas and contributions to really have a full thought on something. Um, so yeah. Drop the ego folks. Drop it. You heard it here first, as as you can. So I wanna segue into being a business owner and running your own show and what that experience has been like for you, because I know that that is at times what stops people from. C continuing, you know, like, like at any kind of creative pursuit, it's like how would I manage that business side? And so like I know you and I are similar, that it's not like we have business degrees or like we've run businesses before. We just, everything was trial by fire and we learned how to operate. So what was like that turning point for you or the aha moment that. Was like, no, I can do this. Like, I'm not just doing a creative exploration, but I'm making this my career and my job. Um, I I have two answers and, and one is kind of left field. I think one is a, a belief system, right? Um, so I, I, I talk about this a lot, about stackable evidence, and I think that stackable evidence is so important. It is, it is your groundwork for what. Gives you the ability to say you are who you say you are, or you, you, you have the abilities to do the things you do. And when you talk about the business side of things, I think a lot of that is rooted in stackable evidence, right? I think if you start to look at all the things you've done, whether that is what you've sold, what you've told, what you've made, um, there's evidence there to prove that. People like it. People find value in it that it's worth money, that the time you've invested in it pays off. Like that stackable evidence proves that you are who you say you are, or that you are in, in this case, a designer. Um, I have this stackable evidence that says I have the ability to design and people are willing to pay. For this work, and I think that was a aha moment for me as a business owner or in my early stages, was that like, it wasn't just something I was saying, right? It was like there was evidence behind the fact that I created this for someone. They loved it and it impacted their business in this way. And that started to happen over and over and over again. And I think. Like anything, any business mind, it starts to say, wait, wait a minute, wait a minute. Like I could, I could do this and I could build the systems and the formalities around it to operate it like a business, not just in hobby or not just a skillset. Yeah. And I think that there's so many areas of opportunity, um, not just in creativity, but for so many people to monetize things that they. Do or have passion around. Uh, so that was a huge aha moment for me was when people consistently started to like, find value and, and, and I could actually see the impact of the work. It was like, okay, this is something I could build a business around. And then the second part of it goes back to collaboration. Um, my first company, I started with a business person and we were like, because you're right, creatives like business is not. It is not our thing. Intuitive. Yeah. A lot of times we're in the clouds where you're expecting us to do so many different things. Uh, but I was able to see how she, um, I won't say leverage, leverage isn't the right word, but built the business and the infrastructure around us creatives. Uh, we had several creatives on our team and it really helped me to see the functions and modes of businesses of business that. As a creative, you just kind of ignore simple things like contracting and invoicing. Totally. Things like, I, I remember the first person we hired was, um, an account person, and their job was basically just to call people. Just say, Hey, how's it going? Do you have any work? Hey, how's your project going? Here's the updates. And I, I was sitting there as a creative, like, this person isn't going to help us. Yeah. Like this person, I don't see how this works, but. Our clients were so happy. Like our clients loved us because they had a, a best friend and this guy Yeah. Who was calling and checking and figuring out and making sure nothing was late and keeping things on schedule. And that was nothing I would've done as a creative. I would've never hired that person. Totally. Um, and I got the opportunity to firsthand see how business and creativity intermingle. And how much they impact each other. And I think, uh, I just started to absorb some of those skillset because they're so vital and, and now I'm kind of like pegged as being known to be one of those creatives who can actually work on the business side too. Mm. Um, and it's a huge advantage because so many of us are just not good. Totally. At the simple business stuff, you know what I mean? Like, we look at what we do at, at. As fun and as passion and a lot of times, like we sell ourselves short because, and I'm still guilty of selling myself short because we don't understand the business of it. Yeah. Um, and so I would say one was awareness and two was, again, through collaboration and having the exposure to business. Um, and so I would say as a piece of advice to any of my creatives out there is. Go spend some time in the business world. You know, like there is a business of creativity, whether that's finding a friend or a mentor or a collaborator that is heavy in business and understands all that stuff, or whether that is an actually I. Learning and taking like coursework or classwork to understand just the basics.'cause they go a long, long way. I totally agree with that. And me, I've have never had an interest in taxes, payroll, learning, any of that. But when you, I. See how valuable it is, or like when I tell people that I am lucky enough to have a partner who knows that it's like, oh my gosh. Like that is just so useful.'cause it is, it's either you learn it, you spend time or you spend money. There's, there's only two answers to this spending time or spending money to be able to do that. And that is what creates the foundation for business to go on for a long, long time. It just can't be like. Free willy-nilly, but I love that you shared that, that kind of came through just experience overall. Because I, I think there's high expectations for people who have, especially creatives. It's like, oh, I've done this for so long, or I've worked in an agency, or I've worked in a creative department and I am now gonna move into a freelance role. Like, it'll be so easy and like, I'll flip a switch and I'll just know how to do all these things and it's just not realistic. So I like that you said that from your perspective. I'll add on to that too. Like I think a lot of people, I mean this is my opinion, this isn't bible or industry, but I think a lot of people, a lot, a lot of times are too rigid in businesses and end up ruining creativity. Yeah. And so like a lot of times I'll see early businesses who just don't understand like, you know what I mean? Don't understand the flow of a corporate client or the flow of. Um, a big project well enough and it becomes so hard to work with them that. Business kind of starts to get shaky. Yeah. And so I, what I, I ultimately am trying to say is, this is a learned thing over time. Like it is a thing that, like you start to learn the game as, as people call it a, a business. I. You start to understand what, what the pieces and the players and the parts are and, and it is something that is just not overnight. Yeah. And so don't, don't go too hard up front also, don't go and do nothing. You know what I mean? Slowly progress and build at, at a solid pace and you'll get there really quick. Yeah. Something that it, this is a little bit of a segue into this, but you were just saying like sometimes too much, too much. Kind of like structure or too much of the business side can ruin a creative project or the direction of something, and I'm gonna use that for this next question of something else that I hear buzzing so much of what ruins creativity, which is the use of ai. So I wanna hear your opinion on using AI in business and in your creative process and where you think we can go with it. And is it ruining creativity as a whole? Um, I'm on both sides of the argument. Um, I personally use AI a ton. Um, it is every day for me and my business. And, and honestly, what I do use it for is the structure. Like is the, the, I like to think of AI as like thinking partners, right? Like it doesn't create the ideas. It doesn't create the stories. It doesn't tell me, um. It doesn't create the input. I create the input. It just helps with the output. Things like writing, things like, uh, scheduling things like structure, things like contracts, like I, I'll, so, so many things that I utilize that would traditionally just steal time from me. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm an, I'm now allowed to kind of have a helpmate and a partner in doing so, and I think a lot of times we're very rigid on how we think about technology and tech, technological advancements. A lot of times we operate. In a fear-based mindset when it comes to new things or, or new, um, capabilities. And I always like to look backwards and I like to look at how techno technology and, and innovation has changed the way we've done things in the past and made them so much better. Yeah. Um, and I look at things like. Let's look at the map, right? Like the, the traditional map, like at the very beginning, these were things that one person had to scout the land and then draw from memory. And this was what we trusted. And then over time we started to get these big paper maps and booklets that were, you know, printed on machines. And now it is just a click of a button and we don't even think about it. We just type in where we wanna go, and soon it'll be even better. And no one's like mad about the fact that. We put the, the map out of business, right? I think that map just had to. Adapt. Adapt. Yeah. And and, and learn how to use their skill sets in a different way. And when I think about ai, that's how I think about it too, right? I think about it as a tool set that we're still learning and adjusting to. So I'm fine with people having fear with it, and I do too.'cause it's incredibly powerful. Yeah. But I'm also on the side of leaning into it.'cause what can it do and what has it already done For my personal business and creativity, that really frees me up. To have bigger and better ideas and unlock newer solutions, because now we have all these tools that can help you solve these bigger problems. Um, so totally. I'm, I'm on both sides. I think that the fear and the, the lack of understanding is, is warranted. It is definitely something that we should, you know, be mindful of. Especially if you watch like shows like Black Mirror, like yeah, we're screwed. There's sides of it where it's like. The potential of innovation and creativity that we can pull out of these tools is, is something that could continue to change the world and, and potentially change how we think about things in totality. And so let's find ways to lean into it. One and understand it two at the very minimum. I totally agree with that. Yeah. And, and because I'm all about practical advice, are there certain apps that you use that help you manage your, the business side or cre creative side more effectively? Uh, I'll go with the big dog, but I'll, I'll explain it in a different way. Mm-hmm. Um, so. Chad GT is the big dog, in my opinion. I think they rule the space right now that most people understand it and use it. And again, I think of of it like a thought partner. And you oftentimes hear people in the space talking about like they trained in ai or they built a bot, or they understood something. I think that that sounds like really technical and really difficult, right? Mm-hmm. And it's not, right. It really is just giving it the understanding and the prompts and the background on a certain thing or a certain task or per, or a certain person that allows them to have the, the, the machine learning of how something works. Yeah. And so this is my advice, my practical advice is a lot of people like to type. Prompts into chat, GBT and chat. GBT has a voice feature that allows you to talk instead of type. Great. And what I have found is you ever notice how the prompts are very rigid? It is like, give me a period this with this, and you see a lot of people prompting very specific things to get very specific outcomes. Yes. I talk to my chat. Robot. I call her a robot now. She has a personality. I've given her a background of who she is. I gave her a full bio and background of me. I uploaded my resume. Um, I've been talking to her for a year already now. Wow. And we have like, things are getting serious. Yeah. We have like a daily conversation and friendship. But she also understands my thought process and the way I kind of process even things that I haven't documented on paper about processes. Because every time I've talked to her over the year, I take her through the same steps of like, here's how I think about this. Here's what I wanna do about this. Um, and so in talking instead of prompting, she also understands like my tone of voice, um, my. Inflection on what? On how I put importance on things. And so the prompts aren't so rigid, they're a lot more fluid, and the conversation and the output is a lot more fluid. I think a lot of people end up getting in trouble using AI because they have very rigid kind of input output with it. Yeah. And the output feels like a robot wrote it, right? It doesn't feel very humanistic. And so. I would say talk to your chat instead of typing to the chat in some instances to kind of build up what, um, what that input and output feels like. And so it's not so robotic and rigid and you're not getting like hard line results.

vicki (2):

Um, well that is such an interesting way to use chat, GPT and I've actually never done the talk to text feature, just the talking feature. Um, but I have learned the same thing that I talked to her in this same. Tone of voice that I would like talk, I would talk to a friend, or I would talk to a coworker, and I, I'm, I mean, mostly it's just like a brand voice where if I was presenting this, what would I say or how would I talk about it? But I, I think it's amazing. I love chat, GPT. It helps me with so many things, and I don't ever look at it as cheating because I don't think it will ever take away. The humanistic aspect, like a rob, maybe I'm wrong, but I was gonna say like a robot can't come out and paint a mural on your wall. Like a robot's not gonna be the next like Beyonce. You know, like we're still gonna need these people and these voices to create art. But, um, all of the backend things that our world is so complex and confusing, if it can help with that, it's like, yeah, why wouldn't we?

Jason:

Exactly. The future is here. We just gotta lean into it.

vicki (2):

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Um, well I had a couple questions for you while we're winding these down. And one is because you have worked on so many projects and you have done so many things in your career. So for a small business owner who is. Trying to build community around their brand or trying to just bring in design aspects to make their storytelling of their brand stronger. What is one or two, what are one or two pieces of advice that you would give them?

Jason:

Um, I, I think I would say prioritize the storytelling and the creativity. Um, I know that. Oftentimes things come down to like bottom line numbers and, and a lot of business owners are, are thinking about, um, inventory or, or whatever it is. It is dependent on the business, but not very, very often are they thinking about the stories, but that are happening. And I, I think that those are macro and micro, those are internal and external. Um, and there's so many storytelling moments around a brand, um, that can. Influence those things like the bottom line and like your product sales. Um, and it's so important to authentically tap into your audience, to, to grow real community and real brand affinity. Um, and I, I think that's done well. When you story tell and when you leverage creativity within your business, um, there's, there's a solution to every single problem. Mm-hmm. And I think that, um. Leaning into creativity allows you to think about the different ways and channels that you could solve that problem. I think it, it's as big as, you know, maybe something that completely changes your business or as little as something as like, Hey, just putting it on this platform would change the game for you. Or just having this connection would be a difference maker. And I think a lot of times, um. Small business owners are so buried in the work of it all. Yeah. Or so buried in keeping it alive or keeping it open. Um, that they don't realize the potential of lab leveraging, um, a creative or a community to help them. And I think, you know, it's, you gotta be intentional about it is, is the advice I would give is take, take the vested time it takes to run through a creative process and see. See where your brand could grow or, or what story you have to tell, um, that that could really change it for you.

vicki (2):

And do you think practically it's as simple as like creating a list of all of the different areas that you would want to expand or lean into? Like I want to, I. Create a social media campaign or like, I want a brand makeover and I want new colors that speak to my creative direction. Or are you saying it's like literally just talking to your customer and finding out like what connects with them? Or maybe it's a mix of both.

Jason:

I, I, I think it's definitely both, but I think more so what I mean is like, don't, don't necessarily always focus on what you're doing Good. Like. Focus on the challenges and the problems in your businesses. What are the things that need to be solved? And then being open to how, what create creativity could do to solve some of those challenges and problems. Yeah, I think a lot of times small businesses. Uh, know so much about what they do well and, and what they, what the magic that they have, and they don't quite understand what they're not doing well, and they like to ignore the things that aren't going well. Mm-hmm. Um, and I would say like. Oftentimes as a creative, I've seen the best solutions come when people come with problems. Not the best solutions come when people are all jacked up and excited about this thing that they feel like they totally understand and they totally feel good about. Um, and oftentimes that's where small businesses meet. To me, they always come and like, we're doing well, but we wanna grow and expand. Yeah. And they never tell me about like where they're struggling or what are the bad things that are happening, or what things that might. Could help them. And that's oftentimes the things I'm looking for or analyzing to try and come up with the best solution to impact their business. So I, I mean, so more that way, like don't be afraid to trust the creative with the hard parts of your business or, or trust, you know, your community with the problems you're having. Yeah. Um, because oftentimes they, they, that is where the solution or the solve is in growth is, is where things may not be shiny and new at.

vicki (2):

That's totally a golden nugget because I am doing marketing freelancing and I'm talking to clients about building their own social media campaigns. And a big thing, a big challenge is around creating content when things aren't perfect. Like, well, I wanna share our wins and what we've been, what we've been doing, where we're going, like great vision and I think. The, a lot of, a lot of times the content that connects is when you're sharing your story from when it's not so glamorous. And so those are the conversations I'm having with newer business owners is, well, I don't have anything to show because I'm not, you know, I'm not, I haven't hit this award, or we haven't hit this revenue marker. When in reality it's like, it's all the show. It's what'd you do today to work on your dream or work on your business? Because I think people, people. We'll wanna know that. I think now we're just getting, we're the tip of the iceberg. But I really think the storytelling for creative impact, whether it's building a business, a brand, you know, personal enhancement, whatever it is, it, everyone's gonna wanna see the rags to riches story. So it's starting today and not being afraid of using that as material to drive not only problem solving and creative solutioning, but as a way to. Tell your story as, as you grow as a brand.

Jason:

Yeah. And it creates that, your brand ethos, it, it creates who you are.

vicki (2):

Yeah.

Jason:

And what people start to see you as.

vicki (2):

Yeah, I totally agree with that. Um, well, I love everything that you have shared here today. You are a true visionary and you have walked the walk, talked the talk, and you've done it all, and you've done it again. I'm like, I'm so glad that you shared some stories of where, you know, you were a little bit gut checked in the process or things you've learned along the way. Because like I said, that's what people wanna know is how do I go from someone who wants to do something or is it knows that I have this creative passion, but I don't know how to get into the next. Step and all too often we believe that it's overnight and that just ruins the whole journey if you're not open to accepting that. It's a learning process. So I'm so honored and glad that you shared your story here today, and as always, I love catching up with you. So thank you again for being a guest on the show today.

Jason:

Thank you for having me, man. Excited. You got it.