The Vicki Kotris Podcast

Ep 60: Discovering Your Creative Groove with Jen Jones Donatelli: A Journey to Reconnection and Re-inventionand Beyond!

• Vicki Kotris • Episode 60

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Ready to get your creative groove back? In this episode of the Vicki Kotris Podcast, we’re diving deep with Jen Jones Donatelli — certified Co-Coach, powerhouse creative, and founder of Creative Groove. Jen’s story is anything but ordinary: from a vibrant career in media and entertainment to guiding fellow creatives toward aligned, joy-filled lives, her journey is packed with bold moves and soulful insight.

We explore how to find your flow, reconnect with your creative purpose, and manifest the life you actually want. Jen shares her take on the transformative magic of The Artist’s Way, what it really means to live in alignment, and practical tools to help you break through burnout and bring your ideas to life.

Whether you’re pivoting careers, craving visibility, or simply feeling stuck — this conversation will leave you lit up and inspired to take action.

🎧 Tune in for:

  • Manifestation myths (and truths!)
  • Daily practices to reignite creativity
  • Why "joy is the strategy"
  • And the #1 mindset shift every creative needs

Connect with Jen here: 

Website: https://creativegroove.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourcreativegroove/?hl=en

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yourcreativegroove/


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Vicki:

Welcome back to the Vicki Kotris podcast, where we spotlight bold women doing brilliant things. And today's guest is the epitome of creative reinvention. Meet Jen Jones Donatelli, a certified cove coach, creative facilitator, and the founder of Creative Groove. A small business with a big mission helping people rediscover their spark through coaching courses and community. Before she was coaching creatives into alignment, Jen spent nearly 20 years working in media and entertainment. Think Red carpets, feature films, award shows, and bylines and glamor, business Insider, and even Playboy. She's taught everywhere from Loyola Marymount to Literary Cleveland. Jen is here to talk about finding your flow, reigniting joy, and why creativity isn't just a hobby, it's a lifeline. So

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Ooh,

Vicki:

in.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

can I please hire you as my copywriter? That was amazing.

Vicki:

I'm here for you,

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Thank you.

Vicki:

take all the credit because chat, GPT is always my AI assistant

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Oh, so confession time. I have never logged into chat. GPTI have never used it. I am like one of those like Luddite people that's like, no, you know, so, so it's really cool. You're, you're starting to turn the tide for me there.

Vicki:

is a amazing guide. And I was just talking to an, I was talking to a copywriter about it actually, who had very strong opinions of why people shouldn't use it, and she was dipping her toe into the idea of how to use it. And it's basically what we came to is it's never gonna replace just. The human element of creativity that we'll always need, but using it as a guide is so powerful, especially in those kind of creative funks where you're just like, time is of the essence and you need something to help get you there.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Yeah, and like I'm gonna be on a panel coming up. It's on April 11th. But chat, GPT, one of my fellow panelists actually used it, used it to come up with the title, and I love the title. So slowly but surely, I'm being won over by this.

Vicki:

Absolutely. Don't let the, you know, the robots aren't taking over yet, Jen, so don't fear not, but it can be used in very powerful ways. I'm a big fan.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

And it's more like the journalist in me. Like for instance, so this is a little bit of a side note, but as part of my freelance career, I was work for hire author for over a decade. So I have authored over a hundred books for kids.

Vicki:

Wow.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

And I think 14 of my books were part of meta has this whole thing going on right now where a lot of authors are doing a class action suit, basically because they used our books to train their ai. And so you know, they, they violated copyright and everything like that. So I think just because of the fact that, you know, writers and intellectual property is being used to kind of train ai, that's why I've been so stubborn. But I can definitely see, some of the creative benefits as well as like kind of that foundational piece that you talked about, like helping spark ideas, you know, and so I think I'll come around. It's more just me, like planting my flag in the ground of like, humans matter, you know, writing matters, you know, and I, I want to keep those really essential pieces of creativity in place.

Vicki:

Absolutely. Yeah. And have the authenticity just honored throughout the process. So I, I completely understand. I, I wanna dive into actually talking more about your journalism career and you as a writer over the past 20 years, and you've had such an amazing career in entertainment, in journalism. So I wanna know, just in like behind the scenes of it all, what is something that people would be surprised to hear of everything that you've done throughout your career?

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Kind of a fun fact, I guess it's semi surprising. I don't know. So my very fir, well, it wasn't my very first job actually, but it was my very first job where I felt like I was on the right path. I worked at a nationally syndicated talk show called the Jenny Jones Show, and this was back in the late nineties when it was kind of like the talk show heyday, like, you know, Oprah was on the air and you could probably rattle off like 10 talk show hosts, you know, and Jenny Jones was one of them. And that was my first. Full well, no, sorry, I keep saying it was my first job. It wasn't my first job but it was my first job where I got on my creative path. But anyway, I guess a fun fact is, you know, my maiden name is Jen Jones and I worked at the Jenny Jones Show. So it's kind of like a fun fact because that job was really life changing for me and it taught me so much and it, it, what it showed me was, you know, I had a journalism degree when I was working in television production and I was the website producer. So it was kind of cool because I was writing show recaps and I was doing, you know, photography on set and I was interviewing the musical guests. And actually I sold one of my first freelance pieces through that,

Vicki:

Amazing.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

I was able to use my journalism skills, you know, in a TV production environment and it kind of showed me, I. Like, you can blend your passions, you know, with your profession, you know, and kind of like carve out a place for yourself, you know, in the spaces that you're interested in dancing in. So it was really foundational for me in terms of like how my career ended up playing out. But just from a surprising standpoint, it's kind of fun that, like, that was my name and I, and I worked at the Jenny Jones show. I was not the host. There's a different Jenny Jones that was the host. But yeah, so I would say that would be kind of a surprising fact.

Vicki:

Yeah. Yeah. That seems very serendipitous. And I'm just curious because you mentioned this a couple times and of saying what kind of going through that, that story is that it was before that you maybe didn't have a laid path of where your passions and creativity come together. So out of curiosity, what did that look like to you? You know, a fresh graduate of, you know, being a journalist, what you studied for so long for

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Yeah. And like I, I graduated Ohio University, which I know we're both alumni, or alumni I should say, of and I graduated in 1998, so I'm, I'm older than you.

Vicki:

That's okay. Just by a

Jen Jones Donatelli:

but you know, I felt like the whole world was at my fingertips, you know, like I was so interested in so many different things. And I ended up moving to Chicago right after graduation. And fun fact, if anyone knows Chicago, well, I didn't even know that people lived in the city. I moved to the suburbs of Chicago because I didn't, I didn't even know that people lived in the city, and so I lived in Arlington Heights, which by the way, was an awesome place to live. Like I lived right across from the metro train. I commuted on the metro train every single day into the city, and then I figured out like, oh, like. I belong in the city. So after about six months, I moved down there. But my first job was actually for like an advertising agency doing, I was a sales and marketing associate. So I, I did enjoy the work. I mean, I was you know, writing, marketing copy and you know, helping with different tasks around the office. And I did learn a little bit about video production'cause they were doing, you know, different projects for clients and stuff, but it was really more in sales and marketing. And,

Vicki:

Mm-hmm.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

I was essentially an admin, although I did end up getting more responsibility as time went on. And I worked there for about a year. And then I ended up getting a job for basically a social club in Chicago. And it was kind of like a singles social club. And so I was the event planner and I. My job was just to plan all these outings that people could meet and mingle. So we did everything from like skydiving to like theater outings kayaking, can, we did all kinds of things and it was my job to kind of like curate these experiences and help people connect you know, in real time. And it was a really, really cool job. But I actually got fired from it, believe it or not.

Vicki:

the first, the first paint. The first like, oh, that hurts,

Jen Jones Donatelli:

It really, I was devastated. I was absolutely devastated because it was, it was more of a personality match with the owner of the company than it was my performance. And I didn't even know there wasn't a personality match, so I was just. So surprised'cause I thought everything was going great. And so, and I have some kind, I won't go too far into the side note, but a couple interesting, really small stories about that are, I had to take the bus home after I got fired. I was like wailing, sobbing on the bus. Like I could not control myself. And I, I got to my apartment. I lived in Lincoln Park and I went upstairs to my, you know, I had the teeniest tiniest apartment. I called it the shoebox. It was like 600 square feet. And I'm just like, could not stop crying. And a few days later I get this note under my door and it was from this guy that lived down the hall. And he is like, I heard you the other day. And you know, I just want you to know that like, if you need help with your job search or anything you can come knock on my door and.

Vicki:

Oh my

Jen Jones Donatelli:

was like such a nice display of kindness. But what I ended up doing, and this has a point I promise is I ended up temping because I, I type really fast. That's like another fun fact. I can type like 120 words minutes. So I ended up typing or temping, temping and typing

Vicki:

Tapping, typing. Got it.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

and I worked at a bug spray company on Michigan Avenue. And I would take the bus there every day and as I would take the bus, and I actually really enjoyed working at the bug spray company, but across the street was the NBC Tower where the Jenny Jones show filmed. And I would literally stare out the window every single day. The peacock was at the top of the building. I would stare out the window. I was like, I wanna work there, I wanna work there, I wanna work there. And then one day I was riding the bus to the bug spray company

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

The Chicago Reader, which is a popular newspaper in Chicago, I had a job listing for a website coordinator at the Jenny Jones Show, and I moved every mountain to get an interview. And the rest was history. So, so I had a couple jobs that like, weren't really a great fit in the beginning,

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

it was like game on.

Vicki:

Okay. So there's so many things that I love about that whole story. Number one is I too got fired from one of my first big girl jobs, and it is devastating because it lays some kind of foundation, whether it's true or not, which I know in, in our cases this is not true, that you're not. Good enough, or you're not smart enough, or you're not ex, you know, fill in the blank to do a good job at whatever it is you're doing. And that's a real shitty way to start a career, is to already count yourself out of the game before you've even really started the first quarter. And I let that be a story in my own mind for far, far too long that I wasn't good enough, or I could never be this X person that I had in my mind. Whereas what I know to be true now is that very much like watering and taking care of that seed and growing along the way and appreciating, you know, every little inch that you get better and better. I know with time, with the right people, with the right resources, I could have been amazing at that job. And that just goes to show, you know, it's not always. You know, sometimes it's an US problem and we're in the, we're in the height of our evolving into what we will become. But it is so hard when that happens so early in your career and unexpectedly so, I very much find connection in your story. And the second thing that I love about it is, you are working at a bug spray company and you're like, this isn't, this isn't terrible. I don't hate it. you are also, you are also kind of like a human vision board at this point because you're staring at your window and you are creating in your mind's eye where you wanna be, what you wanna do. And Jen, that's so cool because you really then, now it's like it's implanted in your mind. How are you gonna get there? Like, make it happen for yourself And you did.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

I will tell you, Vicki, I have so many stories throughout my career of manifesting the exact job that I wanted, and to be honest with you, like I. I have a little bit of a complicated relationship with manifestation. Like

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

really gel with the law of attraction as much as some people. I really believe in active manifestation, which I kind of define as like, if I know what I want, I am going to network and like move all my mountains and like find a way to make that thing happen. So I kind of believe in like working hand in hand with the universe to, you know, activate your goals and dreams. But like the law of attraction has just never really resonated with me that much, but I.

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

much believe in manifestation and I've seen it happen again and again, in my career. And so, that was the first instance of it. And you're so right. And I think we do get to create our own opportunities, you know, and so it's just kind of figuring out like, how do I do that? You know, and that's what I like to help my clients do. And I'll just say like, side note number 10, you know, I don't like knowing you as I do, you know, I was kind of shocked to hear that you were fired from a job, you know?'cause I happen to think like both of us are catches. You know, like we're team players,

Vicki:

we're tens,

Jen Jones Donatelli:

team players, smart, creative, like fun. Like why would you fire us? I don't understand this.

Vicki:

A hundred percent. I know. And it's like I said, I spent far too much of my twenties just kind of thinking that that was my story. And you know, it takes you a long time to get outta that. And I hope if anyone is going through that, especially in the where we are in the world, layoffs are kind of a given in a lot of industries right now. And so to just kind of say, you know, it's, it's them not me, and I'm amazing and I'm gonna bring whatever energy and you never know where that's gonna take you.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

I think that extends to like, sorry.

Vicki:

oh yeah, go ahead.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

No, I think that extends to all kinds of rejections, like when we don't get the job we want, or if we're applying for a literary journal or if we, I. Go for something, you know, that we don't get. I think we do make it mean something about us, and often it's just really arbitrary factors, you know, especially in today's day and age. And so we have to kind of like realize that it doesn't mean anything about our worth. It's just like the confluence of factors didn't line up in the right way for that opportunity at that time.

Vicki:

Yes, yes. Wholeheartedly believe that it is redirection. So how did this shift your mindset over time to say, because you're working in a corporate world and you have for many years, I know you've been a freelance. You've been freelance for, you know, in, in the most recent past. But what happened in corporate career that you were like, I'm noticing this shift, like, like. aren't expressing themselves, or maybe you're not expressing yourself and you lost that along the way. I'm just curious what was, what was that kind of inflection point for you to then go on and inspire? Creative groove?

Jen Jones Donatelli:

I'll be really honest with you, Vicki. I don't feel like I ever have worked in corporate. The only nine to five job I've ever really had was that first year working at the advertising agency. Ever since then, I have had either untraditional jobs or have worked for myself. And so I've been at self-employed full-time for 20 years this year. And before that I was working in film and television, which is like not a conventional setting whatsoever, even though it is way more than nine to five, like it's full-time work.

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

but I don't really, and that's, I've, I don't feel like I've ever really worked in corporate, so I feel like you could probably speak to that way better than me.

Vicki:

Yeah, I, I guess I look at working for a larger organization where there are things that come up, like bureaucracy, some, you know popularity contests among your coworkers. Like the, a lot of the things that I see, and, and that's kind of how I equate it to, is not necessarily working a conventional nine to five in a cubicle, but working in the confines of someone else's kind of structure container where you don't feel like you are able to express yourself as much as you may want to, because it's just, that's not the path that exists in that container.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Yeah, no, I think once I started working at the Jenny Jones show and then I worked for several other talk shows that were for the same company I was always so lit up by the work I was doing and I was just like a kid in a candy store, like getting to like see behind the scenes of, you know, the entertainment industry. Like I never really felt like that, to be honest. I definitely had my moments here and there, but to be honest with you, like. Working at that show really changed the game for me and you know, showed me it's kind of possible to like love your work. And that's how I felt, you know, ever since then. So, yes, my first like year and a half, like not so great, but I feel lucky that I found a creative trajectory early on that really spoke to me.

Vicki:

Yeah. Oh, Jen, I love that you said that too because I, I, I sometimes get in a black hole of, of the conversations because I, I tend to talk to a lot of people that are, have, have resented the opportunities and processes and maybe it's like not working in a creative field or an industry that does that a little bit. It, it kind of stifles those parts of us and so I tend to have a lot of conversations about that. But hearing you say no, there, there are many paths that open that up, that light you up, that give you, kind of feed your soul in that way because it's not all bad. And I, and I tend to kind of lean on the dark side of it and I shouldn't because you can have amazing experiences and just use them to then design and build the life that you want,

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Yes. And like,

Vicki:

What you do.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

yeah. And my creative groove looks different than your creative groove looks different than Susie's creative groove looks different than, and so like, even though I love working in creative fields, like someone else might feel the same exact way I do about like, bookkeeping or, you know fashion design or like running a manufacturing company or something like that. So. I don't think you necessarily have to be in a creative field to feel like you're in your creative groove. And so that's kind of what I help people do. I help them find their own creative groove where they are kind of like in their flow and where they're, they're working with how they're wired, in some sort of setting that supports them, whether it's self-employment or a job they enjoy or, you know, fill in the blank here. So it's like, kind of like a snowflake, you know, everyone's creative groove is different, but I definitely found mine early on and I'm really grateful for that.'cause it kind of showed me what was possible.

Vicki:

Yeah. Is there was there like a specific experience in your career in entertainment and journalism that you feel like really has helped you in building creative groove and ultimately coaching people and finding creativity?

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Wow. Well, I guess I can give a little bit of background into like how creative Groove started and then maybe, maybe it'll be more clear to me, like, like a tipping point. Because so, you know, I said I worked at the Jenny Jones show, so I did that for three years. And I just loved it so much that I decided to move to LA because even though I loved living in Chicago and I loved my job, I was like really wanting to like see what, what, what else was available in the entertainment industry. So I moved out there and I actually moved out there a week after September 11th. So

Vicki:

Wow.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

I was on one of the first flights, you know, to leave Chicago after that. And it was a very difficult time, you know, obviously in our country, but also particularly in the entertainment industry because there was a flight, you know, I think either from to or from LA where a lot of people had passed away. And production was kind of shut down. So when I got there, I was kind of like. You know, figuring it all out. And so I had to really pound the pavement, you know, to start finding work and everything. And there's, I have tons of stories I can tell about that, but again, I don't wanna do too many side notes, so, you know, funny story there. So for about eight years, I would say, you know, between Chicago and those first years in LA I was essentially a production freelancer. So I was working on like, feature films or like sitcoms or like, I worked at Eon Online for a year as kind of like a ghost writer slash red carpet reporter. And then I got a call from Tele Pictures, which had produced the Jenny Jones Show, and they were bringing the, the Jenny Jones show had been canceled. And so a lot of the staff was moving out to LA to work on the Sharon Osborne show. And so I went and worked on that, you know, and then I went and worked on, another talk show after that with, with the same group. But the, the reason I bring this up is during that time I had actually started freelance writing. So I had, was kind of like honoring my journalism degree as almost like a side hustle in a way.'cause I was like learning how to write and sell articles to magazines and publications. And some of that came from a lot of OU connections, you know. And so I like to say like, use your network, whatever that looks like. If it's an alumni network, you know, where, wherever it may be because you might be surprised, you know, how it can really help you set sale with some of the goals that you have. It definitely helped me in those early days. And that was how I, got, like, I ended up being, having a work for hire author as one of my freelance gigs. I,

Vicki:

cool.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

long story short, I started freelancing for American Cheerleader Magazine through an OU connection because I have a, a background, you know, in dance and cheerleading, and I loved it. And I was writing, I was writing for like this family of 10 dance and cheerleading magazines. And a publisher approached the magazine to say like, do you know any, you know, writers who love writing about cheerleading? And they recommended me and one other person. And I I got chosen to write a six book nonfiction series about cheerleading. And I was still working at the Sharon Osborne show during that time. So I was like, doing all these things, you know, and, it, it started a 10 year relationship with this publisher where I essentially was kind of like a freelance author. They call it Work for Hire. So they would come to me with different projects that they wanted to do and I would bring them to life for them. So I wrote all different kinds of books for young girls. But anyway so I was like, kinda had this big side hustle going and I was like working in entertainment. And in 2005 I was working on another talk show with tele pictures. When that show got canceled, I had like all this side writing work going on. And so I was kind of like, you know, there's not a lot of production stuff happening in the summertime. I'll just kinda like freelance and like ride out these writing projects, you know, over the summer and then I'll find another job, you know, in production. But it ended up being kind of an accidental detour into becoming a full-time freelance writer. I never really, I did. So it's interesting'cause the scales kind of tipped at that point because I continued to like freelance on award shows and do small projects. But it was kind of like before that I was doing entertainment and production full-time with like a side hustle of writing. And then it became, I was writing full-time, but I had some side hustles, you know, in the entertainment world. So it was almost like a flip switch and around that time. So I started freelancing in 2005. I create, I don't know how it came to me. I think it was probably'cause I was doing a lot of writing about dance and cheerleading. I decided to buy the domain name, creative groove. I just liked it and I thought it, like, you know, spoke to kind of how I approached my work and like how I viewed my work, but also it kind of described what I was doing and at that time it was literally just a portfolio website where I kept like all my magazine articles and like if people wanted to hire me, I would send them, Doug, here's my website. So. I trademarked the name in 2008

Vicki:

Wow.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

and also 2008 was a very pivotal year for me because first of all, I trademarked the name Creative Groove. I took the Artist's way as a participant for the first time,

Vicki:

Okay.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

and I was working with a client who was an author and she was also a co coach, which coaching was not as mainstream back then, so I didn't even really know what that was. And so she had written a book called respect rx, which was like a book for young girls all about respect, self respect, respect for others, respect for the world. And she hired me to kind of help her lead and design some workshops and be kind of like a, it was more than an assistant, but it was kind of like a operations person. I was kinda like helping her, you know, get her workshops out into the world and get her book out into the world. But she wanted me to understand the coaching piece. So she basically paid for me, she sponsored me to do Cove Fundamentals, which is the orientation to cove coaching. And like I said, I didn't really even know what I was doing. I was like, sure, that's amazing. I would love to learn more about what you do, and it'll help me design the, it'll help me help you better, so let's do it. And I, I walked into the Glendale Hilton, I think it was September, 2008. And it was a three day, basically introduction to life coaching. And I was just like, oh my gosh. Like, I love this. And by the end of the weekend, I had decided I was gonna take out a student loan and I was gonna do the full curriculum because at the time, and I was just like, this just, I love this, you know?

Vicki:

What did you love so much about it? What was so and inspiring for you?

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Well, I think you and I are similar, or at least I think we are around like really enjoying like group dynamics and like self-discovery. And the, the funny thing they don't tell you about most life coach training is that you get just as much out of it as you end up giving to your clients eventually. So you really grow and learn and like discover things about yourself. And so it was just so much fun to like learn about coaching, learn about myself, and like connect with all these cool people who were becoming coaches. And I just was so energized and I was only three years into my freelance writing career at this time, so I was like, you know, I'm already like kind of rocking and rolling with my freelance writing. This could be another income stream. So I was like, let's, let's do this. So like I took out a student loan. And, you know, I was still freelance writing and editing and doing all the things, figuring out how to be self-employed basically. And so it was a six month I think, program where we would go once a month for three days and like do a full on training. And so to be honest with you I did the full six months and I got, I was not certified yet at that point, but I was fully trained.

Vicki:

Okay.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

So I was like, you know what, like I'm already like writing, like this is just gonna be one of my income streams. I don't need to do the certification just yet. So I didn't get certified that time and I started working with some one-on-one clients. But to be honest with you, like it didn't really take off at that time. I was already like kind of like. Busy with my freelance clients and it just kind of like fizzled out, to be honest at that point. And so,

Vicki:

well,

Jen Jones Donatelli:

yeah.

Vicki:

real quick,'cause I think it's, it's, you said that there was a couple things you're doing at this time. It's like your freelance career is just, is, is kind of bustling. You are have steady and, and ongoing clients, and number two, you're doing the artist's way

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Yes,

Vicki:

first

Jen Jones Donatelli:

yes.

Vicki:

And that is, know, juxtaposing with you going and learning to be a proactive coach. So, just to do a, a quick little segue, can you explain what the artist's way is? And I would love to talk about how that also influenced you creating creative groove and making it kind of what it is today.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Yeah. So I. One of my first jobs in production in 2002, so like, pretty much right after I moved to la was on the movie Daredevil. It was a Marvel movie with Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner. And

Vicki:

Mm-hmm.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

They kind of like fell for each other on that set, which is interesting.'cause he was dating JLo at the time,

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

but oh, sorry. So many side notes. But it was a very difficult shoot. Like we were literally working 18 hour days. It was such hard work. I mean, I, I loved it, but it was hard work. And so at the end of the, we shot for like nine months for that movie. And so at the end of the film shoot my, the team I was working for gave me a copy of The Artist's Way as a gift, like a thank you because I was, I was like a, a gopher basically. I was like a PA person. So I was very entry level. And so they gave me like this gift at the end and it was the Artist's Way book and journal. And of course I had never heard of it. And so I was like, oh, this is cool. And then I kind of put it on my shelf and I forgot about it for about six years. And so in around 2007, 2008, I saw this flyer like artist way class at the Bode Tree Bookstore. And I was like, oh, I have a book. You know, and like, I love, you know, just new and interesting experiences. So I was like, maybe I'll like do this class. And so I signed up

Vicki:

Okay.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

and again, like, and that was in 2008. And so it like opened up a whole new world for me. And so what it is, is it's, it's by this point, the book is 32 years old today.

Vicki:

Wow.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

it was written in 1992 by Julia Cameron. And it's at this, at this time, considered kinda like a timeless home, you know, for reconnecting your creativity. And it's a 12 week program that you work through. And I like to call it a shapeshifter because people get a lot of different outcomes from it. Some people use it to reinvent their relationship with their inner critic or like work through old beliefs, you know, that aren't serving them anymore. Other people use it'cause they have like a creative goal burning inside that they haven't moved on. And they're like, I'm tired of talking about writing this book. Like, I need to shift, you know, into momentum.

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Other people come to it because they're kind of bored in their life, to be honest, and they want some, they wanna get out of a rut and like feel more colorful and creative in their daily life. So at that time, oh, also it can be very helpful in times of transition. And I think that's why it really landed with, with me at that time, because again, I was learning how to be self-employed. I was forging a place for myself, you know, in a creative field. And I was around, you know, in la the artist's way was kinda like a rite of passage. So there were like 60 people in this class. Like when I do them, when I do them here for my own business, like I usually have maybe 10 to 20 people in my classes. So like, this was like, you know, a lot of folks doing this. So it was very energizing. And so, you know, that's what the artist's way is. And that really opened up a relationship for me with the artist's way. So I ended up doing the artist's way with Kelly Morgan, who taught that class. I did it with her like. Probably three times over a course of like six years, I would say. And I also did her, she had all the like other advanced coursework you could do. So I probably took like six or seven classes with her over a period of like six years. And so the artist's way was becoming a big part of my world. And that.

Vicki:

I do wanna say that I have heard, so when I did, so I did the Creative Groove Artist weight class with you two years ago. And when I told some of my friends that I was doing it, my friends who lived in like larger metro areas, so some like Detroit, New York I'm telling them and they're like, oh my God. This is a rite of passage for literally anyone, you know, any kind of creative or aspiring creative is to you is to kind of go through the Artist's Way program to find an unearth what needs expression, and also to kind of help you deal with some of those self-worth issues, which you don't, you know, you don't think about it. It's like, oh, maybe you've always dreamed of being like. don't know, this is, this just randomly came to me, but like, you always wanna be a Zumba instructor or something and like, you're not doing it. Okay. Well maybe through that it's like how you feel about your body and how you reflect that in other people and how you can, you know, like find that piece within. So I just wanted to do that little side note is it's, it is seemingly not strange to work this program as much as you need it and pull pieces of it in your everyday life so that you don't have to go through a 12 step program essentially every time you need a connect with self. It's like designed for you to use those, the little pieces to, to build on and, and grow.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

It's interesting that you used the phrasing 12 step program because Julia Cameron actually rooted the book and 12 step methodology.

Vicki:

Remember reading that.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

yeah. And so she's a recovering alcoholic and so she calls the process of the artist's way creative recovery. So you're not necessarily recovering from addiction, you're recovering from being disconnected to your creative self. And so there's actually a really intentional reason that the book is 12,

Vicki:

I love that.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

you know, modules or chapters and there's so much more to it. But it is, the artist way does have so many pieces and parts, and so I always like to say like, take what serves you and leave the rest because there's so much there and chances are you can really benefit, you know, from some of it. So.

Vicki:

Yeah. And you call it like a creative chiropractor. That's kind of like what creative groove is. So break that down, like what would it mean for someone to go through a program and what are your, your client's experience to get back into creative alignment?

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Yeah. Well, so the Artist's Way experience that I've designed, it's a, it's a 12 week class or cohort, so to speak, and I kind of consider the artist's way, like the textbook of the class because I bring in a lot of my coaching, training and other methodologies. Like I show different TED talks and like we talk about other books and, you know. Philosophies and things too. So the artist's way is definitely the through line of the experience, but

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

reason I call it a creative chiropractor is we do a lot of work in the class to like get clear on like, what are your values? You know, that you wanna start maybe reclaim or start honoring again, you know, to feel more creative or to move on your goals. We do things like a Ikigai exploration where we, you know, learn about your Ikigai, which is essentially your reason for being. In some of my previous cohorts, I don't do it every time anymore because I find that sometimes this particular exercise is better one-on-one. But in the past we've developed, a life purpose statement. So like we do some pretty meaty stuff that's essentially about figuring out who you are creatively, you know, and that's why I call it a creative chiropractor because you're realigning with. You know, your true identity as a creative and like rediscovering it. So it's like getting you back into alignment so that you can, you know, move forward with your creative goals.

Vicki:

And talk

Jen Jones Donatelli:

I.

Vicki:

a little bit about the, how do I wanna phrase this? About the conversations you have with the non-creative person and breaking that down from not being a traditional like artist, meaning you're not a painter, a dancer, a whatever, but how humans are innately. Born and built to create things. I mean, the female body is designed to create and give life that is like the truest sense of creation. So talk to me about how you can talk people out of their own heads who say, well, I'm not an artist per in traditional sense, and like how they can use that principle in helping themselves become more expressive.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Yeah, I mean, I do think the name of the book is a little bit of a misnomer because people see it and they're like, I'm not really interested in like being an artist, per se. And so I like to say it's about being an artist of your own life. I. You know, and like, what does that look like to, you know, paint with bold strokes in your life, you know? And so you know, if people say they're not creative, like my ears perk up because I'm like, you have this definition of what you think creative is. And it's like, like you said, we're all innately creative and like, there's some great quotes in the artist's way about the fact that we are all innately creative. And so I like to help people figure out, like, it might just look like, you know, where are you most energized? You know, how can we do more of that? Or like, what hobbies, what passions do you wanna plug back into, you know, that make you feel more alive? So it's really like finding your flow in your daily life. And if that includes like taking a water color painting class or like writing a poem or whatever it might be, that's wonderful. But maybe it's just like, you wanna do like dopamine dressing and like, like telegraph your creativity in different ways. And so we kind of just, I look at, with each of my clients like. What are you dissatisfied with or like what goal is burning inside of you, you know, that you need to reignite basically. And so it is different for everyone. But yeah, it's just kind of like designing your most creative life. That's how I look at it. And when you have that, when you have that in place, then you're in your creative groove. And like, because I'm multi-passionate, you know, my business covers a lot of different things and so. It all makes sense to me, but I needed to figure out like what was the ecosystem, you know, what was the through line running through everything? And so in the last year, I developed these four pillars that I consider to be part of your creative groove. So the four pillars are creativity, productivity visibility and authentic self-expression. And I believe that when you dial in all four of those things, you find your creative groove. And so any coaching program I do, any class, any workshop, any experience, you'll really find those outcomes reflected in it. Because I think that's my special sauce of being able to help people like find that Venn diagram sweet spot where tho those things all meet.

Vicki:

Yeah. What inspires you to do it? Because you're, you are, you're so passionate about this, you've been doing it for so long. I mean, is there like a core that you hold onto that just keeps you motivated to keep helping people uncover these pieces of themselves that maybe they lost or suppressed for so long?

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Yeah, I mean I really do love my work and I'm not gonna lie, like I feel like I've been like really like up about it in this whole interview, but it is so difficult. I mean, being a solopreneur, it's like you have to love it because yes, you get to be in your zone of genius and you get to do what you love, but you also have to do every other thing. So you have to do

Vicki:

Yeah,

Jen Jones Donatelli:

the marketing, the sales calls, you know, all, all the things that help you run your business. So like. I am not gonna pretend it's always like sunshine and roses because it is like super, super hard. But luckily I look forward to Mondays. I love what I do. I'm always coming up with ideas. And so and shoot, I wanna make sure I, I come back to your question'cause I had something I wanted to say around it and I started like, going off on my tangent, so remind me what your question actually was so that I can come back.

Vicki:

mostly what inspires you to

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Oh

Vicki:

doing this kind of work.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

yes. Okay. So so yeah, I've been self-employed 20 years and the button of what I was saying before is like, I've. Really come back to this version of Creative Groove only in the last seven to eight years.

Vicki:

Mm-hmm.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Creative Groove has become what it is today, more in like recent years. And so what it is now is it's basically a small business, you know, that offers coaching programs, courses, workshops, and community experiences around the art of creative living in these four buckets. And the reason I love it is you know, I love helping people tap into their creativity. And one of the reasons that Cove Coaching has been such a good fit for me is that one of the cornerstone beliefs is that people are naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. And so that was kind of baked into the coaching model that I was trained in, even though I came to that coaching model very organically and didn't like choose it for myself necessarily.

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

I ended up finding like an excellent fit because. I believe that too. You know, people are naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. And so I like to help people believe that for themselves and embrace that. And like, what does that look like and mean if you believe that about yourself. And I just, I love teaching and facilitating and you know, like I said, I'm a, I was a cheerleader, you know, I get to be a professional cheerleader. I get to be a creative champion for people and like, I love it. So, I mean, that's what it is. It's like I get, and like there's a lot of different methods of coaching out there, you know, and I, I hold my client naturally creative resource one whole. So yes, I can bring in consulting and tell you like my experiences with book publishing or selling articles or whatever, and I will help you with that. But really I believe that you are equipped with what you need. So I'm not going to tell you what you need to do. I'm going to be there to help you unlock your own answers that are already within of like the direction you wanna be going, and then help you like pave the way toward that, you know?

Vicki:

I love that. What, what has been maybe one or two of the biggest transformations that you've seen through Creative Groove, where you are just in awe of where someone started versus they finished, or what they continue to do?

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Yeah, I mean, it's a little bit difficult because I hold client confidentiality like. It pretty highly. And so without permission, it's kind of hard to share some examples, but I will say in some of the more public facing success stories so I have a couple signature programs, and again, they fall into those buckets. So like the two I'll share a few success stories from are called March Radness and start your press. Well, I can share some from the artist's way too. I'll give like a little popery. So Start Your press is basically a two day intensive I lead where I teach people from a journalist perspective how to get media coverage. And it's for like small business owners, entrepreneurs, you know, thought leaders subject matter experts who want to learn like how to be quoted in the press and raise their profile. And that has been like really exciting because I've been able to help people, you know, have their name in print in places like, you know, national Geographic and Time and like Fast Company and you know, business Insider. Like one of my clients actually, she is amazing. She's a 65-year-old business coach

Vicki:

Okay,

Jen Jones Donatelli:

and she. She is just like, just getting started. Like she runs two companies, she doesn't wanna retire. And so she and I kinda came up with this concept that we pitched to Business Insider for a first person essay about the fact that she has no desire to retire and she feels like she's just getting started. And so her essay was published in Business Insider about a month or two ago. And so that was really exciting. And so and like I've helped some of my other clients like speak at conferences and stuff. So we look at like, what are your visibility goals? And then we kind of, and, and by the way, so I do the two day intensives, but I also work with people one-on-one if they wish around that.

Vicki:

Okay.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

so it's been really cool to help really talented people you know, grow their authority having more visibility. So that would be a couple success stories there. And then every year I do something called March Radness. And I know it's already passed by the time you're listening to this, but Vicki was actually one of my guest experts this year. it's actually happening, happening right now as we

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

record this interview. But it's a, week long free challenge where we use a March Madness SPI inspired bracket to narrow down a lot of ideas to your next right thing. And some of the success stories of this have just been so wonderful to see, because at the end of the challenge, we declare what I call your bright idea. And then I'm gonna check in with you throughout the year, you know, and see like, how's it going? Did you do the thing? You know? And what's been fun is to see the people who activated their idea, so. Personal and professional. You know, people have done everything from decide to go back to grad grad school, so there's even a march Radness baby, believe it or not. Like someone decided that it was the, it was the right time for her to start a family, you know, and she did, and she like said that March Radness helped her get clear on that.

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

like professional stuff like, you know, someone last year decided that she was going to do a short film series based on a storytelling event that she had started within a healthcare organization. And all of those short films have been shot now and are like being screened and everything. And so it's really cool to watch. And then Annette Tack who has done March Redness for many years, she's a career coach and what she has worked on over the last few years'cause I also do one-on-one coaching off the back of Mark Ven. So we have worked together and her book was published this January. And so to be able to help people shepherd their ideas and see them through to fruition, you know, is so exciting. And then like with the artist's way, you know. It's so cool to see because sometimes people just get back in touch with what they wanna do. So like there was one person who took it and like, she bought an RV at the end and she ended up just like traveling all over. And she also restarted her pasta company that she had, had dormant for a long time. And so like, and like another woman talked about how she always wanted to have a sculpting studio in her house and like she ended up doing it, you know, after the artist's way. And so I wouldn't say it's, I mean, yes, there's magic in the book, there's magic in the coaching I bring, but really it's just like people finally deciding to do the things they wanna do. Like, I don't really like, like posing it like I did this thing and then they did, like, that's not really what it is. It's more like, I'm gonna help you write out a permission slip for yourself to do this thing and then we're gonna figure out how to do it together. So it's kind of like, I'm gonna be like the wind under your wings, but like. They are the people who are doing these things in the world and like deserve the credit for it. So

Vicki:

Yeah.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

exciting to be part of.

Vicki:

Yeah, it is. And I mean, that's what a true coach is, is like, I, I, I mean, athletes are like the easiest go-to, but it's not like you give, and a coach doesn't give an athlete talent or give them like the putting in the extra hours and really honing in on what they're great at. You're creating a container to inspire, to give them room to grow, to guide, but like ultimately you have no power over what someone does or doesn't decide to do. And I think as an individual who I have gone through different coaching programs, I, I feel like I am always focused on some kind of self-improvement that, that is. That's something that took me a long time to learn and to really accept that no one is coming to save me. No one who's has the, the magic pill to tell me and, and make me better, but. Turning on that kind of thing in your, in your mind and knowing you're capable of so many things and you have the power to do it, it's just reinforced by the people around you that help kind of fan the flame, you know? So I think that's, that's who you are. Jen and I, I know since we're kind of closing this interview down, I'm, I want our listeners to be left with, with something practical that they can do, and even to feel 1% more creative or

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Mm.

Vicki:

closer to doing the thing that they said they, they wanted to do. Whether it's climb Mount Kilimanjaro or it's take a pottery class or like whatever, but what is one practical thing that you can leave them with to start today?

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Well, actually I'm gonna build on something you just said because I think it kind of needs to be said.'cause I know a lot of the people that listen to this, you know, are business owners or entrepreneurs or, you know, doing their own thing in life. And like I think a lot of times we do, like one of the, one of the women I met recently calls it getting guru.

Vicki:

Okay.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

Like we do kind of like invest in the programs or like the courses or everything. And those are very valuable. Like, I'm not gonna diminish that at all, but I think there comes a point where it turns into procrast learning and it's like we think we need, like we, like we almost become like addicted to like courses or like, you know, doing all the things. And at some point it's kind of like tuning inward to trust yourself and believe that you do have what it takes, you know? And like you've put in the time to learn, you know, you've invested. Like now is the time for you to activate and implement. Because I think a lot of times, and like, I'm actually gonna talk about this today in March Madness. So there's like a little bit of

Vicki:

great.

Jen Jones Donatelli:

synchronicity, but James Clear and Atomic Habits talks about motion versus action. And motion is preparing to do something and action is doing the thing. And so I think, you know, if you're kind of like in limbo right now, think about like, am I just staying in motion and like what would action look like? And so I would just encourage you, like, if you're feeling a little stagnant or stuck to like one, like ask yourself like, am I kind of believing that I need all these external things to be able to do the thing I wanna do? Or have I already kind of done that and I'm, I'm more ready than I might think. So just do like a little bit of inventory of like, how am I gonna trust myself to like, to run with this? You know? And the, and I, I, I hope that the answer will be yes,

Vicki:

Yeah. And that there's resources along the way to help you get there if you're not quite there. So

Jen Jones Donatelli:

yes. I.

Vicki:

All of your contact information in the episode notes, how to join Creative Groove, how to take advantage of all the programs that Jen runs throughout the year. She does a lot of free programming too, so if you wanna dip your toe and just kind of learn what all this is all about it's a great way to connect with Creative Groove and with Jen Jones Donatelli. So I'm so happy that we were able to make this work and love having you as a guest